Q: In my marriage, we have a form together and that has, for me, come about steadily, and it required a lot of listening within, and timing, and as that has come to marriage on the outside it was already, for me at least, one of a first full cycle. And there is something in me that likes to go further into form, and it would be in the example of for me and Lars to find a house. You know how couples could give form to getting a pet or a baby, for us it would be a house. (laughter)
John: So this house, would it be a boy house or a girl house? (laughter)
Q: Well, I think I could do some interior designing! I guess it’s also because I’ve never owned many material things. The biggest thing I’ve owned, ever, was a car. There are no children, no pets, no houses and people have all kinds of stuff! Or would you think that it’s all just very nice and delightful and the form that I’m looking for to expand is just, again, deep within?
John: All in your self.
Q: You mean to bring it all into my self?
John: Yes. Not quickly to the outside or you’ll make of what is outside of your self a distraction.
Q: Whether in the form of a house – it doesn’t matter much if I buy a house or not – but the actual real building inside is, again, just bringing the deeper levels into my self and not yet even from my self out into life? That state isn’t quite there yet, right?
John: Into your self and, in your relationship, into your person. If you had nothing to do, nothing to take care of in your persons, in your relationship, if you had nothing to occupy your selves, what would your relationship be?
Q: We’d be just sitting there! (laughter) A little bit brainless, but together. Concerning sexuality, we are just tip-toeing along. I believe I’m not the only woman having it, but just controlling female patterns that would also serve me as a protection, probably from deeper sexuality. I want to get taken by that level.
John: For you to come into what’s real in relationship, consider seeing what ways you have of relating together that isn’t referenced to your thinking or to your feeling, to your will or to your emotions. Give form, in your self, together, in how to be together, how to move together, without your usual use of powers. Discover your deeper way within of tender weakness.
Q: I can see after this time that we’re together we could just now assume we know each other in how we’re moving. Things become easier in one way and then you can become complacent.
John: Becoming complacent in your relationship means that in your relationship you’re fostering a private space within. That’s where you fill out something in your self while the two of you are together that is nothing to do with the two of you; it has only to do with your self.
Q: It’s like each of us has their little pockets of comfort that we keep to ourselves, is that what you mean? Yeah.
John: And discomfort held together by various kinds of abrasiveness.
Q: Abrasiveness? Can you say another word?
John: That’s where you have a rub between the two of you that has a negative edge to it, that you either act out or conceal. If you conceal it, you develop a private space. If you express it, you empower that private space.
Look how to be in your self and with him without any use of your usual powers. All that leaves you with is most delicate weakness. The presence in that weakness is the delicacy of being, the delicacies of being together without the need of doing to make something of that togetherness: without the need of quality time, without the need of quality communication, without the need of anything that you can register in your self as important, important in your relationship. What remains is your heart, not adorned with your self, which makes you available.
Q: Would we be practically, really just sitting there?
John: Do whatever you do, do whatever needs to be done, with dearness that does it. The more subtle it is, the deeper it is. It isn’t first a feeling; it’s knowledge, knowledge of what’s real, what is first real.
Q: Are you differentiating between dearness in my heart and then knowledge as something that precedes the dearness in my heart?
John: It’s a subtle first level of dearness. It isn’t dearness felt and moved. It’s like you lying down in knowledge.
Q: When I have that, I don’t need to feel dearness or love in my heart.
Q: So it’s much more impersonal at that point, to begin with.
John: It isn’t impersonal; it is deeply, deeply, quietly real before it has flowered.
Q: Would you suggest to me to, when I go about in my day, to slow down into that? That would eliminate all these little ways of including him in any way that doesn’t come from that, which isn’t really it, because it’s still like a maneuvering around to …
John: Yes. Doing things when you’re with him to occupy your self. Otherwise it would feel like there is just too little there, so you can quickly rescue that by making something up to be there, by doing something, and making that doing important.
Q: Or this, I have seen also what you see in couples where she tries to just pamper him in a way that isn’t a real giving, it’s just a hoping that he’s fine. Keeping up a false harmony which is, to reality, kind of dreadful. So I’ll rest in knowledge and that is where we link together anyways, no matter what he does and what he’s in.
Q: So when we’re together there is already more form and then I’m not as easily tapping into that level of knowledge, or would I need to accumulate more on that level to have more ground?
John: That real ground is the softness and the openness within of flow, which a self cannot create. It has all to do with your heart and your being. Your self is the conscious given space for that.
Q: Because as I’m going deeper and I’m expanding, I discover a new level of my self. I mean the self is actually huge, from a real perspective, because there’s so much land.
John: It’s pretty much everything, even though it is really, almost nothing.
Q: Somehow – I wouldn’t know how – but how can we open up the topic of sexuality? For me, deeper sexuality means to include my being in the movements around my first and second chakra, and practically make love, and then … but what is all of that?
John: If you include your being it won’t quite work.
Q: Can you explain?
John: It’s you, within the context of sexuality, you as a being including your self. As a being, you including your self and his, your body and his.
Q: Do you mean that we wouldn’t even talk about sexuality if we weren’t including the self and the physical body? Would we just call it beingness?
John: Yes: that you are together, giving your selves and your bodies to.
Q: Would you say the real way is simply by this inflooding of beingness that does it all and we’re just …
Q: … making coffee, or making love; there’s not really a difference except it includes different levels of the body and the self?
Okay. So let’s go a little bit further if that’s okay. If our sexuality is the greatest engine for us, for being human, what is the connection between, what is the reality and the actuality between the penis and the vagina? I’m inspired by having heard Barry Long talk about it in this tape that he brought out. It can be only special if it’s only filled from beingness. More specifically he has been saying that between the two genitals of man and woman there’s already something happening on its own. I understood the selves don’t need to be at all part of it: there’s something happening on its own, already, by nature. What is that connection?
John: Your sexual organs are a perfect and immediate representation of you – you as you presently are. All of the levels that you’ve awakened to, all of your beliefs, your subconsciousness, all of you in how you are in your life, as you shift, your sexual organs instantly shift, infusing your body with the physicality of beingness. If you shift your orientation to your self you infuse your body with the physicality of beingness. If you shift your orientation to your self, you infuse your body with the physicality of that orientation.
Q: Are you inviting me to shift into a greater span?
John: A greater depth.
Q: It’s like moving my bottom line way further or having no bottom line at all.
John: Which opens up the deeper levels of your sexual organs. Your sexual body first communicates your beliefs, all of your underlying beliefs. Your sexual body belongs first to your beliefs. If you have no beliefs, if you have no more need of your beliefs, your sexual body then belongs to your being. You can’t affect a change in that through the use of thought or feeling, will or emotion.
Q: It’s a clean drop into direct knowledge?
John: As awareness, yes, and then being that in your self and in person.