Q1: I feel, especially in the summer seminar, like I’m understanding more. I’m aware more, whereas before in the meetings I felt I was going somewhere and I didn’t know where. I can’t say I have a crystallized picture but I’m aware of us existing in a different place. Why is it that being there helps here? I understand it’s some kind of field and that being there transforms me.
John: You have the very best part — that you’re knowing and you’re relating. Through the calling, the backdrop of reality is slowly moving to have presence in this reality, which changes what this reality is. This reality isn’t made by what this reality is. It’s made by what it comes from, but that’s not realized in this reality.
Q2: And it’s us relating that brings it into our lives as a body of knowledge and then we walk?
John: Yes. And when it moves it will also cause a lot of upheaval.
Q2: Inside us? Or inside the world?
Q2: Well, I can see in the upheaval that’s rising inside us. I can feel an increasing ability, a capacity and so much more that I never thought would be possible. And the loveliness of relating is so rich, that’s where the little golden nugget is there for me at this moment. I can see where the capacity to keep relating to what I do know and love is, and then all the upheaval is allowed. I can see the poor me, I want to hold it so tight.
John: It will be pretty difficult.
Q2: It has been extremely difficult.
John: But it hasn’t even come yet. When it really comes, you’ll have to be going right to the bedrock of what knowing is and you won’t be able to use your self to help, you won’t be able to use your past, your experience. So you’ll have to dig through the ground. It’s just like digging through the dirt and the different layers and the levels until you reach bedrock and without reaching bedrock you can’t move in what’s coming.
Q2: So the ability and the capacity to get to that place is going to be only as well as I keep relating to my body of knowledge of what I really, really know. Everything else will take me away from that.
John: You can’t use your self and you can’t even use your goodness self.
Q2: And we are developing that as we are moving, right?
John: A lot of this seminar has to do with that.
Q2: So are you saying time is running out, planetary wise?
John: It’s a narrowing of the middle ground. When the middle ground is narrowed, the polarization that exists within people and in this world becomes really apparent; instead of it having comfort within a middle ground where it’s all sort of mixed.
Q3: John, I’ve wanted to ask you about realization. You said yesterday that realization occurs in difficulty in the self, that we make a self to realize. Am I understanding you that the realization occurs in the self and we need a physical body in order to realize? How is realization connected with apprehending or laying hold?
John: Realizing what you know makes what you know in your heart real in your self. Otherwise it’s reduced to being a compartment, with your self being completely separate from it. Realization makes it real in your self. Laying hold has you, as awareness within your self and in your heart, laying hold of what you are knowing as awareness. And that part has nothing to do with your self, even though as awareness you’re laying hold from within your self. In the laying hold, you are leaving what you are in. In laying hold of your deeper knowledge, you’re leaving your self. It’s not an abandonment, but you’re moving out of your self into what’s deeper. That enables you, in your return, to bring what’s deeper than your self into your self. That changes your self.
Q3: And how does the realization occur?
John: Relating to knowing has you realizing.
Q3: Realizing that we are greater than…
John: That’s thinking about something. Realizing that we’re more tends to be thinking about something, so then it’s informational instead of direct.
Q2: Relating is like taking hold also, no? It’s like you’re becoming, you’re merging with what you know, what you love, it’s a communion when we relate.
John: It’s the difference between a child speaking to someone and saying, ‘this is my mother, whom I love’ or a child just… there’s no thinking; there’s no words; there isn’t a concept of anything; it’s not relating as child to mother. it’s just directly relating.
Q2: I’m going to have a lot of relating to do this summer. I can see that.
Q4: When you said there’s no middle ground, I get the experience of either feeling totally ‘up there’ or feeling totally off.
John: That’s good.
Q4: Is there a key now with the summer break coming up?
John: Concerning anything that matters that’s deeper than your self, like not relating to your self. Having thoughts like ‘I don’t like you,’or anything like that, from within what you do actually relate to, is absurd.
Q1: Picking up on ‘there’s no middle ground,’ is there anything you can say about understanding the self and the inner space? Is there anything you can say about the outside of what the future holds? I don’t really have a picture of what that means.
Q1: Like sudden change?
John: A lot worse. It can get better when the middle ground is being soothed by something taking place in this world and it’s somewhat of an artificial getting better. It’s like fair weather happiness. When more of reality begins to move, when greater reality and the backdrop begin to move and it’s a wave into reality that reduces the middle ground of each person and the middle ground of this world, then that pushes people to choose between the poles. Some will really move into what they know and then others will move against what they know. In really moving against what they know, they will be something and they will do things that they never thought they would do before and the reality of that polarization has to come to the fore before there can be a healing. Otherwise it’s like a fair weather healing and it has no deep root to it.
Q1: I understand what you’re saying and how do we survive that? I don’t expect you to answer any of these questions but I think we have to be pretty resilient, pretty strong.
John: We’re pretty resilient. We’ve gone through a number of inoculations.
Q2: So in hanging out together and being with each other this summer, I can feel I want to be with people more, like in a bigger way. Like not even living alone anymore. I want to be with others. I know my growth depends on it in a way, my evolution.
John: People will go through a polarization.
Q2 : What is a polarization?
John: People being pressured. As soon as there is pressure, especially if it’s a much greater kind of pressure, then there will be those who will be leaning into knowing and those who will be leaning into what they are experiencing in themselves. So then that sort of puts a split into the group. It’s an important thing for that to take place because that brings about a real seeing. The middle ground is removed. A polarization exists and that really pushes people in realizing that they’re not going with something that they’re actually knowing the truth of. Instead they go into what they’re experiencing in themselves within the pressure. That has them experiencing even more that now they’re very separate from what they are knowing. Within that is the invitation to let all of it go and just shift over.
Q2: Yeah, I can see it happening a lot in the difficulties in the last weeks for me. It’s like the self wanting to take the experience more, but then knowing to stay. It goes back and forth, and that will happen more?
John: A lot more. The difference between some difficult weather and a real storm. When there’s a real storm, things start flying apart.
Q1: I just can’t get a grasp on the dimension. Is it going to be like the movie “The Road.”
John: Oh, that’s pretty intense.
Q1: I’m trying to get a grasp. And the time frame. Do you have…It’s not dependent on the quickness of the group is it?
John: The quicker the group is, the more that’s hastened.
John: I’m not referring to anything like The Road.
Q1: Oh good. It’s a very profound fulfillment that I have been going through this seminar, it’s like the beginning of a fruition or a part of a fruition. The meetings in the seminar, it’s been going on for awhile, but I’ve been feeling really non personal, just this profound love, like something is beginning to be fulfilled solid. Did you call us? Like who found who?
John: The calling can be there before our crossing paths or our crossing paths can immediately awaken the calling. Either way, as soon as there is a crossing of paths, if you’ve already been awakened to the calling, then you would be able to make sense of something you couldn’t make sense of before, because the calling is much deeper than going home within or awakening within. The calling has to do with the big picture, so it’s beyond awakening, beyond enlightenment, beyond being at home.
Q1: One of the things I’m experiencing is the multi-level activity, whereas before I used to come to the meeting on the weekend and there was like a big gap. Now it’s completely the opposite. I have a sense of the other realm continuously, even during the night. Through the seminars I always get further, so I get a taste of that multilevel presence.
John: Going through a seminar is like going through oneness time. And weekly meetings, with breaks in between, is like going through separation time. So it provokes an integration of both, the separation and the oneness.
Q1: Separation is a time of integration?
John: It’s a time of integration and it’s a time of realizing the difference between being in a meeting and having a week without meetings and having difficulty in that, having something of a problem in that because of realizing that there’s a disparity between what you are in meetings and what you are during the week. That pushes realization
Q1: I get the picture that there’s no free ride in living.
John: And after a great big download then you’re sort of floundering around for five weeks, in the sense of working with so much that there’s difficulty in it. So you’re put in a stretch. It’s quite a thing to come out of a seminar like this and for it to just end. So you’re completely immersed in it for two weeks and then it’s over. So there’s something of a shock in that as well. It’s like being in survival class and then all of a sudden you’re dumped in the wilderness somewhere and then you realize you didn’t think it would be like this. You’ll be one of those ones, beaming in the wilderness. Being put in the wilderness is really something. There’s no getting around it and everyone has their wilderness within.
Q1: The one thing that I see is, as you know my mind is very active. When I wake up in the morning, I have a choice. I find it difficult just to be in knowing. I’ve started hiding the radio next to my bed because otherwise I immediately go to the radio. There are all kinds of interesting documentaries and whatever.
John: You’re going to die and all of that will be gone.
Q1: I know. It’s like an addiction.
John: Then for your going to bed time, get rid of it. Because your going to bed time is life after death time. So you go to bed and you clear out everything that will be cleared when you die and then you go to sleep in different regions of what remains after you die, what remains of you.
Q1: One of the reasons I feel okay about the five week break is I feel very close with you, like a lot of people do and I don’t feel there will be a break. It’s a physical break but energetically I feel a lot more .
John: If you’re simply relating to what knowing is, all the way through, then that changes your perception and your experience of difficulty. So instead of seeing difficulty, you’re seeing how knowing relates to the opportunity that is within difficulty. Difficulty and ease makes no difference anymore because it’s all about the knowing that’s within it.