JdR Podcast 261
Real Relationship: The Purpose of the Male Orgasm
“What is happening in male orgasm and ejaculation?” A sincere, frank and at times humorous conversation in which John and the questioner explore the subtleties of male orgasm, how to integrate the embarrassing ‘wild man’ within and make real love – with or without having sex.
"The way that you would entrust yourself to her and be trusting her, remain in that outside of the bedroom. That is you making love within the bond all the time: making love all the time, whether there appears to be sex or not."
—John de Ruiter
Excerpt from a Dialogue
With John de Ruiter from the March 4, 2001, Edmonton, Canada Meetings
Q: My question relates to something which has come to us by surprise, really, which is that since we have been in Canada almost completely, and since we decided to marry, totally, we’ve fallen into a very warm and happy celibacy. All of my real experience around that shift in expression, is, as I say, warm and happy, but there is a part of me that sort of grumbles from my head, that says “well, it is not okay to be warm and happy about that because I must be missing something or denying it or repressing” or whatever.
John: If it is warm and happy, it’s good.
Q: It does feel good and it is just this mental habit that questions it.
John: Then you are learning how to make love without having sex.
Q: What happens in orgasm and maybe particularly in ejaculation? I can’t really form the question but it is as if something is put away from you in that. It feels like there is something that you’ve defined yourself by in a lot of your early male years, something you always wanted to be doing and having and getting, as if something is being missed. I wonder if you have anything to say about that.
John: When there is coarseness in sex there is a building up toward an orgasm and an ejaculation, and as soon as that happens, it is like hitting a wall. And the very thing that you were looking for and tasting and getting more and more and more; the moment you are there, you get bounced off.
When the self-interest dissolves, then as an orgasm approaches, you are not only tasting, within, something that you know is real but when you reach the point of threshold, instead of being bounced off you are catapulted into the very deep of everything you knew.
Then you are introduced to the very next thing, within, that is about to come into form: entering into that part of your innermost, beyond the threshold of your mind, beyond the wall of your mind, entering into that part of your innermost that is just about to be the newest form of goodness, that is just about to replace anything within you that is old.
Q: That makes me feel quite tearful.
John: Every orgasm is meant to be a full and a complete entrance, a total immersion into your innermost. It is only the coarseness of self-interest in any kind of want or need present on the way to an orgasm that lets you get away with something that you are legitimately tasting and knowing within. But when you reach that orgasm and the climax, then it is that coarseness that you are using to get something that you are wanting – it is that coarseness that is then a wall that you bounce off, that cuts you off from where you know you are heading, which is not an orgasm or a climax. It’s total immersion, without your mind, into your own innermost.
The wanting and the needing, the coarseness that’s present, is you following the path within your body that leads to heaven. The want and the need is allowed on that path but it is not permitted to enter through the gate. So you have much expectation and when you reach the gate, you reach it on the run and it stops you.
When there is no coarseness, when there is no want or need, when there is no self-interest, then the same path within your body takes you toward the gate.
The difference is that you are freely let through the gate and you experience what is beyond that gate – but without your mind.
Then, as you come back through that gate, to be in this existence, you have with you, within your heart, a deposit from what was beyond and that deposit is now growing in your heart, coming into form. As it comes into form from within your heart, then it is slowly comprehended with your mind.
Q: Two days before we were married, I had a brief dream. The essence of it was that I was in a room with somebody else, and the purpose of our being there was to get this wild and woolly looking man. It was as if he had slipped from twenty thousand years ago; he had come into the present and he was completely uneducated, uncouth, hairy and hardly clothed, I think. He had a red beard. The purpose was to get this wild man and bang him up in this closet, and lock the door, and there was nastiness in what we were doing. It was quite punitive, it seemed like a weird and wacky dream.
John: That was a wonderful dream. That was your innermost speaking to you
in a form that you would despise. That form is a part of you that you would wish to keep well away from yourself. Keeping that form of yourself well away from yourself makes you just like that.
Q: How would I let that form of myself back?
John: By being open to see what that form represents in you. You would wish to not be like that because a part of you is like that. If you will not integrate the most dense part of you, that is what bars you or separates you from integrating the finest and the loveliest of your innermost.
As consciousness, you can only ascend as high as you’ll let tenderness descend.
Q: I do now the part of me that I would lock up and silence but I wouldn’t know how to integrate that without being locked up!
John: By first being okay with being locked up in that.
Q: It seems like that coarse and wild side is only real when it is acted out, when it is physical and wild.
John: It will be physical and wild inasmuch as you’re not okay with being locked up in it. When you settle with it by being gentle with it and letting your self see it, without needing to do something with it, then it doesn’t have to act itself out. That is like you listening to it with a genuine heart when it is still just a very little bud. When you don’t listen to it when it is still just a very little bud then it will have to display itself and come into full flower, which will make an embarrassment of your self. If you don’t agree with it in its first budding when it’s very little, that is like you denying its existence with a harshness and then that is the energy that you give to it, so that it can grow big and strong and prove its existence to you in a way that embarrasses you.
When you agree with it in tenderness and in gentleness when it’s little, that is you giving it a home within you when it’s little. When it has a home in you when it’s little, then what grows within you is not its exterior but its interior, which is the same innermost as your innermost. Then instead of it getting big and ugly and embarrassing, it transforms and manifests loveliness.
Q: What is the purpose of the coarseness? Or is that just grabbing for power and mistaking what you need?
John: It is recognizing that one which is within you, recognizing it in the bedroom, where it would embarrass you. Recognizing it without using him. Recognizing him, letting him in, letting him have a home within you, in the bedroom, without you using him. Then this wild one becomes gentled and quieted and stilled.
Through it having a home within you it gets into touch with its own innermost. Then, instead of it representing power being used, it represents power being very gently laid down. That one within you represents the power in you that you most aggressively would want to use. It is the most coarse use of power that would even embarrass you. It is such coarseness of power being let in for you to see and then, while seeing it, doing nothing with it.
Q: I completely get that. I can see how I would know it in retrospect if that was how I had been, but I don’t understand how I would meet the man in the bedroom without using mental tricks, to recognize but not to use his power. It feels like there would be a lot of doing there, almost like a discipline.
John: Such coarseness would come through in the bedroom, but without self-interest. It would be moving through your body without you being a taker. That would make you familiar with it, without it being used.
With whatever wakes up within your body and moves through your body in the bedroom – even if it is something that would embarrass you – give it space. Let it be itself, but from a place that is clean of grabbing anything. Letting it have the space without you being there to get something out of it, without self-interest sharing that space. That would be you being something that you are not used to. Being something that you would not want to see, and letting love be in that.
And when you are being in that, trust her. If you are trusting her, then you are not using her. When you are not trusting her, and entrusting yourself to her, then you are using her. When, in the bedroom, you are not entrusting yourself, your whole heart and your whole body to her, and when you are not, with all of your heart, trusting her, then, in the bedroom, you are using her. As long as, in the bedroom you are trusting her and entrusting yourself to her, then you are not at her; then you are with her. Entrusting yourself to her and trusting her puts you right into the bond with her, where you couldn’t miss. Regardless of what anything looks like, you are not missing. Then you don’t have to use your mind to judge what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, what is good and what is not good. Then everything that is there is truly good.
And the way that you would entrust yourself to her and be trusting her, remain in that outside of the bedroom. That is you making love within the bond all the time: making love all the time, whether there appears to be sex or not.
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