Q: I wanted to talk more about what you talked about at the table. A talk I had with you about eighteen years ago and it was turned into a tape and it was called ‘A Tension-Free Universe’. I see now, eighteen years later, I’m carrying more tension than I ever had in my life. And you talked about what that is. I wondered if you could elaborate further for us, and how that came about. Part of it, The hearing I had from you, was I am feeding the self and making the self more large or more the focal point rather than what was deeper than that. Can you talk more about that?
John: Being quietly in your heart, regardless of what anyone does or any circumstance does, seemingly does to your self.
Q: In my relationship, It’s obviously the tension part is something I’ve built into the relationship for my own intactness. Is that what that is as a self, that I’m getting something out of being that way?
John: It gives you, your self stylized sense of self at the expense of your heart, at the expense of your humanness. You, being that, strips your self of the humanness. It puts tension in your self where humanness was in your self. It puts tension where nurture was.
Q: That also seems to me that I create adversaries in my life with you and with others to somehow keep that alive. And you mentioned if I took that away that I would be left with nothing. Could you elaborate on that more?
John: Without you having adversaries to give you a sense of purpose you would be, in yourself, depressed. You would be in the meaninglessness of your self. Quieted in that and deeply listening in the midst of that, you would know a slight shift. Instead of being quiet in your self, you would be quieted in your heart, your real door to meaning.
Q: Why am I not getting this, because I have been here for a long time and I can’t seem to drop to that place where I can sincerely get what you are saying, because you told this to me before.
John: It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been here. It doesn’t matter how much you know. It doesn’t matter how much you’ve awakened. All that really matters is how given you are to what you do really know. Taking time off from that isn’t real time. Real time is only when you are gentled and quieted in your heart. With you being gone into what you directly know in your heart.
Q: It appears that I go into the center of that quietude in my heart inside my coconut. And then I seem to need to go back up into that shell somehow. Then I can’t reside there for a long period of time, that I can drop into that for a short time and then I’m out again. Is that just my avoidance of the inevitable?
John: he inevitable being that, in the midst of your self.
Q: You were saying that I was afraid of the nothingness inside that coconut.
John: Afraid of what seems like empty space, what seems like nothing in the coconut.
Q: And yet I also have a deep love for that space. It just seems so contrary. And I know and then I choose not to know.
John: For you to remain there would cost you all of your beliefs that you store in your self. It would cost your whole illusory sense of self. It would cost you all of your self-importance. You wouldn’t get to be right anymore. You wouldn’t be a voice to fairness anymore.
Q: You got me with that one. That was like an arrow: a good one.
John: All you would exist as, is the quietest voice deep within to openness.
Q: Can you talk more about this idea that I have of fairness.
John: Love isn’t in a voice to fairness.
Q: In that it’s neither fair nor unfair. It’s irrelevant?
John: The voice to fairness is dependent on unfairness. It fundamentally needs something to be unfair. When you believe in fairness you’ll be on the lookout for what is unfair.
Q: All the time.
John: When you’re looking for unfairness, you’ll create a wrong that makes you right. Love doesn’t hold a wrong or a right.
Q: This thing about fairness that you’ve brought forward is something that I see that I’ve hinged my whole life on: what is fair what is unfair.
John: The belief of fairness, entitlement to fairness, is based on the belief even deeper within that you are entitled to anything.
Q: How does that tie in? I don’t see the bridge. If you have an idea or ideal of fairness and unfairness and you use that in your life, how does it turn into entitlement for everything?
John: The mechanism of fairness is dependent on the mechanism of personal rights, personal entitlement. This world is based on it. Your humanness isn’t. Your being isn’t. Everything that is real within isn’t based on personal rights. It’s based on the person being everything. What is real is based on your quieted heart and everything that is deeper being everything.
Q: A month or so ago, I talked to you in the café about power and the use of power and you said the strangest thing. You said if you have power and you don’t use it you lose it. Can you talk about that? How do I experience power and have no opinion. Just be in my heart.
John: That is your real power. Your real power is there in your weakness. It isn’t there in your strength. If you don’t use your real power, which doesn’t feel like power, you lose your power. Or if you misuse your powers that are not your real powers, you also lose your real power. Your real power thrives in weakness. Your real power has to do with you, in the midst of your self and every circumstance and relationship in your life, for you to be like this: (John opens his hand).
Q: Why have I not gotten this by now? It’s so good and yet I still turn my back on it.
John: You being your love, which is like this: (opens hand) doesn’t instantly change your nervous system, which you trained to be like this: (closed hand). What enables you to sustain being that openness and softness of heart is by you dropping into its greatest depths while you are there, present in your nervous system, with life acting on your nervous system. In embodying what you really are there is no getting around your nervous system.
Q: Do you mean it’s a must that that take place. That the nervous system is that your heart is wide open in the midst of allowing your nervous system to have it?
John: Without you staying in your nervous system, using your strength to put it in its place or using your strength to put someone else’s nervous system in its place.
Q: Can you repeat that because that is really key to what I do?
John: That you’ll be openness and softness of heart in the midst of your nervous system, without making your nervous system right or wrong. Without you winning or losing because of what comes up in your nervous system. Without you believing the polarized information that your nervous system gives you.
Q: I see you’re also right about this that I can infect and affect others nervous systems with mine. Is that true?
John: Anyone who is polarized in their nervous system: yes.
Q: So I can easily bring that to Elise and to Eden.
John: By making them right or wrong. It makes of your nervous system the judge of everything.
Q: Rather than my heart?
John: Yes. Rather than what you quietly, deeply know the truth of in your heart. Anything other than that you don’t know. What you don’t know you can’t conclude and you can’t judge.
Q: When I saw you earlier, I saw again your ancient face, which I’ve seen here many times before. Do I have such a face in relation to us when you look at us? Do you see other, my other face or faces?
John: Most of what I see I don’t say. I confine what I say to what leads you instead of your mind. If I lead your mind, I’ve lost you.