Q: I want to ask you about meaning. I was connecting to the meaning of the different levels, but I couldn’t realize or relate to what you say that I am meaning. So I was wondering if you could say something about it.

John: If you could remove all of your levels, including all of the levels of your being, until there is just you, what remains is meaning. It’s most difficult to comprehend because what you’re used to is relating, in some way, from what you are, through your forms, enabling you to relate to what is meaningful. You get the reflection back from your forms of what you are in those forms. In that sense, you respond to your own reflection. You respond to what is meaningful because you’re recognizing something of you in what’s meaningful. It’s not comprehended as a reflection because your forms are real. What you are in those forms is also experienced as real.

Q: What do you mean by the levels of the being?

John: The levels of movement, the movement of meaning. The pure movement of meaning is beingness.

Q: So a different level is different meaning. Is that built of meaning?

John: Yes.

Q: There is a sense of ‘I’ in the meaning?

John: Only if meaning moves. It’s a little bit analogous to water. If there are currents in the water, there’ll be waves, or if there is movement above the water, such as wind, there will be waves, and where there is a wave, there is the ‘I’. When the wave comes down and the water becomes absolutely still, there is no ‘I’.

The ‘I’ is known in movement. The more dense that movement, the more densely comprehensible the ‘I’ is. Within the density of your self and your body, your awareness is extremely localized. Your awareness becomes physical. It has thought, feeling, emotion, will. It is where you have the most powerful sense of ‘I’.

The reflection of the ‘I’ is so strong that the ‘I’ can believe its own reflection within the forms, believing that the reflection is what it is and the experience of those forms is what it is. In the removal of forms there’s the removal of your reflection. If all of the forms are removed, there’s no reflection. There is just meaning…still.

It’s like watching television and you see all these people, and then you take apart the television because you’re looking for all of those people. You take the whole television apart and you’re completely confounded. You know you saw those people so you went inside of that box and they’re all gone. Where did they go?

When you’re in that level of perception it doesn’t make any sense. When your identity is in your self, you can’t comprehend an ‘I’ that isn’t just exactly like your self. When you are awakened to what is deeper within than your self, then you know this more of you; you know that this deeper reflection, this deeper movement, is what is really you and it’s no longer your self that’s you. And you begin to comprehend that.

You can’t comprehend it without you being the removal of your forms. You can’t take your self with you into what you are without any of your forms there. You can’t take your self as an observer there and see what you’re like without any form at all. You can’t go there with your mind and think. You can’t take your heart there. You cannot take your own being there. What you are without any of your forms, including the forms of your own being, cannot be comprehended through any of your forms.

Q: So what does comprehend it or become like this? Is it meaning understanding its own meaning through the forms, through our lives?

John: Yes. It’s so extremely complex that if you were to completely give it form it would require all of the levels of your being, and then it would require the form of your heart centre so that what you are can comprehend choice, and beyond the heart it would require the levels of self, levels of form that do not reflect what you are.

These levels that are not what you are reflect your possibility. The levels of possibility are determined by what you are being in your heart. The complexity of all of these levels working as one, you being aware in all of them, you awakened to all of them, gives you accurate reflection of what you are. Integrate all of it and it is all really you, and then you can be that without any form, but then you are no longer the realization of what you are.

Q: So you need the self, the more superficial level to realize the deeper level.

John: Yes. When the deeper levels, when the levels of your being are manifested into the levels of possibility, the levels of your self, what is unseen of your own being becomes seen together with the possibility of how you’re able to change and evolve. What you are is able to evolve.

Q: Not only by realization but to go in a deeper level, you mean?

John: Through mastery inwards and outwards until you, what you are, is in complete control of every facet and level of its own reflection without being taken by any of it. As that, what you are is able to create. It’s able to create more of what you are. It’s able to make what you are, where there wasn’t before.