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John de Ruiter Podcast 447

John de Ruiter Podcast 447

Clarity Within an Eating Disorder: The Key to an Uncommon Perspective

When: November 5, 2021 @ 10:00am
A far-reaching conversation exploring this woman’s fear of gaining weight, and the limits of her treatment so far. John’s responses take us beyond worldly norms and conventional therapy into the bigger picture, offering a radical shift of perspective.
“When you go to the root of it, there is no getting, achieving, or having anything. There is, to the root of it, no helping your self. All there is, is you being the real.”
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Podcast Transcript

Clarity Within an Eating Disorder: The Key to an Uncommon Perspective

Q: Hi John. I still have a really, really, really strong fear of gaining weight and it’s not because I care what other people think of me or because I have a lot of body image issues; it feels like a moral compass thing, where if I gain weight then I’m doing something wrong. I’m not being true or I’m not being the most that I can be. I know that’s not true, but it feels very true. I can’t quite find it inside to let that go or understand where it comes from.

John: It’s your nervous system. You want to overcome the feeling of it. You don’t need to.

Q: Overcome the feeling of what?

John: Of your nervous system. Your feeling.

Q: What is it in my nervous system?

John: That part doesn’t even matter. Understanding it more isn’t going to help you. What does help is that you are actually clear about it. It’s the feeling of it in your nervous system that keeps getting your attention, and because you feel it so strongly, you think that there’s something there for you to deal with. There isn’t.

Q: Are you referring to the feeling of fear of gaining weight?

John: Yes.

Q: So I don’t need to understand, why it’s there, where it comes from, why I’m afraid of it…

John: No. The only thing that helps is that you are actually clear about it.

Q: Clear about what? What am I clear about?

John: What’s real and true and what isn’t.

Q: I mean, logically I know that if I gain weight it’s fine, but the moral compass in me says “no it’s not fine,” so I’m not totally clear.

John: You don’t feel totally clear, but in which are you actually clear?

Q: Well, I mean the first one, because logically I know that it is fine. I can try to convince myself, but then as soon as I start gaining weight a little bit, then I freak out internally and I’m kind of like “oh, this is wrong, got to do something about this.” And then I do what I can to change it. It’s so ingrained in me that I almost don’t really have to think about it.

John: That’s your nervous system.

Q: What’s the best way to address it?

John: Don’t. Addressing it feeds it. Working with it feeds it. Settling it feeds it.

Q: I’m supposed to go back to the treatment centre next week. In the surface world, that would probably be a smart thing to do, but it also feels like I am in some way just taking care of a self-level that doesn’t necessarily need to be taken care of. It’s kind of confusing, like I’ve got a lot of people telling me different things. Also, if I go back I’m going to gain weight, so I don’t want to do that either. So it’s kind of all mixed up in me.

John: Everything that you’re referencing is what you feel in your self. That’s fine, but it isn’t going to work.

Q: Would it be the most valuable just to stay here and be quieted in all of it?

John: No.

Q: Okay. What would be the most valuable?

John: You, in all your life, all of your self, having no speck of a story – not about anything.

Q: If I go back, it feels like I’m kind of adding to the story, but maybe that’s also a story because I don’t want to go back!

John: They’re all stories.

Q: I feel very stuck in all of it and just kind of blinded.

John: Have no self-talk, not about anything. No truth-talk, not about anything. No difficulties discussion about anything, no rational-speak about anything. Any of it generates a spin. Slowing any of it down speeds it up. Truth-talk speeds up the self-talk.

Q: What exactly is truth-talk?

John: Saying what you know.

Q: One of the biggest things at the treatment centre that they have us all do is that we have to talk about everything. And all the thoughts, all the feelings that come up, and share it with the group, share it one-on-one, like there’s a lot of talking.

John: That’s good therapy. If you’re caught in your self, it all needs to come out. It all needs to be talked through. The self has to be satisfied in the change, but if you’re going to go to what’s deeper within, it’s completely different.

Q: So what you’re pointing me to is past the therapy and past the talk.

John: It’s past your self.

Q: Mmhm.

John: That’s too quick.

Q: What’s too quick?

John: Your agreement. The agreement is a story. You in your self being quick to acknowledge what you know, to say what you know, to agree with what you know. Self-agreement with what you know doesn’t mean anything. It’s all chatter.

Q: Self-agreement with what I know doesn’t mean anything?

John: Yes. It all feeds the spin. As soon as the truth within goes into your mind concerning your self, it’s no longer the truth within. It’s just truth chatter. Truth chatter is all a storyline.

Q: So be quiet in it, don’t bring it up into my mind, don’t talk about it or do anything with it?

John: As long as you don’t have categories of that.

Q: What do you mean?

John: That you don’t have, in an internal dialogue, a ‘truth’ category, a ‘difficulty’ category, an ‘ease’ category. Concerning absolutely anything in your self, that on the outside you give it no voice and no movement. But it has to be the whole of it, and not just in areas. What makes it work is if, on the inside, you give no voice and no movement to absolutely anything that affects your self.

Q: That would kind of rule out going back to the treatment centre, then, which is maybe a good thing.

John: This isn’t about your difficulty or the treatment centre. This is only about you being the real without any use of your self. Without feeling support, negative or positive. Without emotional input, negative or positive, about anything. Without mental input. No input and no output.

Q: I mean, the treatment centre, like it’s all input and output.

John: That’s good therapy.

Q: Yeah, but it’s just therapy.

John: Yes.

Q: So then it doesn’t make sense to go because it’s just, like you’re saying, it’s just treating the self rather than addressing, like, in some ways just dropping all of it.

John: They’re treating self-attachment by shifting you to a lighter level of self-attachment. It works.

Q: It works, but it’s still self-attachment.

John: In that, you’re learning how to gain something in what you know to lose. You’re being taught how to find the payoff, and then you’re shifting from one payoff to another. That can help to address the extremeness of a problem, but it won’t address the root of it, which is what is feeding the thousand other things.

Q: The only way that I can heal it is then just by addressing the root of it. It’s a little bit like whack-a-mole because if I go there and treat the eating disorder, then maybe I’ve treated that but then another thing pops up. And I mean it could be like that my entire life until I’ve dealt with the root of it.

John: That’s what is commonplace. That’s the world norm. That’s what makes the world what it is. When you go to the root of it, there is no getting, achieving, or having anything. There is, to the root of it, no helping your self. All there is, is you being the real. Your self, your life has nothing to do with that.

Q: So, even the fear of gaining weight in the big picture it’s such a small issue.

John: In the bigger picture it isn’t a small issue. It’s absolutely nothing. It isn’t even worth looking at.

Q: Isn’t that in some way just like pushing it under the rug, though?

John: That’s working with it. That’s handling it. That’s being caught in it. When you stuff it down inside somewhere, it’s being caught by it. It’s talking your self out of something that’s been caught in your self.

Q: The most direct way to move in it, then, would just be to like, just do this through it. Not look at it, talk about it, pick it up. Just leave it all?

John: It’s not even the straightness through it. The straightness through it is a lot, but what is everything is what looks like you simply being the straightness of the real. It isn’t about anything else. It doesn’t address anything. It doesn’t deal with anything. It’s beingness.

Q: Why do you say “looks like” me being the straightness of the real?

John: That’s what it will look like to someone else, that you were so being the straightness of the real.

Q: And to someone else that could also look like I’m not taking care of the surface issue.

John: It doesn’t matter what it looks like to anyone. Concerning your interior, it’s you living life without any questions and without any answers – none of it. Then you are living being what you see and know in a newborn baby’s eyes. You’ll then be free to involve your self in whatever needs being done about anything. It’s just absolutely none of it has anything to do with your interior. That means you are fully in your self, and none of it is you.

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