“You can come into this world and then leave, and leave with a deficit. Or you can leave with a great gain. A density of gain or a density of loss. And it’s all and only in relationship to what you did or didn’t do with what you knew.” —John de Ruiter
Excerpt from a discussion with John – August 29, 2011
Q1: John, I somehow wanted to address my husband’s passing. It seems we have a lot to take care of with his passing. So I just wanted to open that and just see, you know, what others have to say about that.
John: The more a foundation comes together, the more effective we are in someone’s passing. A loss like that heightens, within the us, it heightens what we have. It makes manifest in a different way what we do have. It also makes manifest the opportunity that he was in and how much of that he really used and what of that opportunity he used or didn’t use. Everything about it heightens what has already come into place here. It heightens the foundation that’s come into place; it heightens the cohesiveness on a surface level as well as on deeper levels. The stark reality of what he would have been in or not in, what was his relationship with what he knew, what did he do with that. Any sense that anybody would have of what that is, whether that’s little or not little heightens again what we have here. Your husband is not separate any more from everything that he knows, everything that he knew. He’s really in all of that. He’s the same as all of that so his perspective in himself and in us is accurate and true. It’s the same that we can have, but with him he doesn’t have to do anything. He doesn’t have to do something or not do something to be in that and to be what that is. We need to do something and not do something to be in all of that.
Q2: So what happens to the disparity between what my husband knew and what he didn’t follow through on? Is that something that he would still be sorting out?
John: It’s not a doing to sort that out now. While you’re here it’s a doing. For him it’s not a doing. He’s not able to not sort it out. He’s completely not separate from everything he knows, so what he is is knowing. There’s nothing over top of that; there’s nothing covering it.
Q2: So it’s just clear.
John: All seeing equals all of the knowing, so there isn’t a difference between knowing and seeing. It’s here that we have all the difference, so then it takes an activity as awareness, with heart in form, for there to be not a difference. It’s a lot of work; it’s a lot of ground to cover to make up for the difference between knowing and seeing, and between knowing, being and doing.
Q3: But it is gone for him now, right? The opportunity…
John: That opportunity is over. The greatest work that can be done is now and not then. In as much as all of the difficulty is removed, the capacity to help is also removed. It’s here that you have all of the difficulty, all of the layers to move through, so much to sort out. So every tiny little bit that is sorted out and that you actually bring into form of knowing really does something, and it does something that’s solid. Now he’s in a lot; to say ‘a lot’ is an understatement. What he’s in now is, with all awareness and with all seeing, huge. There’s very little he can do.
Q4: So the opportunity to do, and the opportunity to help, the purpose of the doing or the helping, then, is in bringing the formless into the higher levels of form?
John: Yes. To what degree we are being what we know and doing what we know.
Q4: In whatever we’re doing?
John: Yes, everything of form contributes to distraction from that, so that’s what creates the draw and the pull to be identified with what your forms are.
Q4: Because the experience is quite gross and powerful?
John: Yes. What we are in is really, really dense and so is the opportunity really that much. What he is in now is not dense at all. He’s in everything of what knowing and seeing is. There is no density to it. Because there is no density to it, there’s very little he can do. The capacity to do is within the density.
Q4: And when you refer to abilities that we have, that greatest ability is to open in the midst of a very powerful, distracting, dense experience.
John: You have your most dense opportunity to be what you actually are, instead of being what you’re experiencing. We can move reality. He doesn’t have that opportunity any more. He’s being it. He’s not able to not be it. He can’t move it. To move reality is to move it in its density. To not move it in its density is to not move it. You can move in it, but because there isn’t a density to it, it doesn’t have the changing power. In as much as you’re not giving into a dense force of reality, you’re also moving a force of reality. The measurement of what you’re accomplishing is in the experience. The greater the difficulty that you’re moving through without succumbing to it, the more you’re doing. If you’re giving into the force of conditioning, not sorting it out, being one with that instead, you’re passing by that great an opportunity. The difficulty represents how much force you are able to be that was other than what you’re experiencing. In form you have a constant measurement.
Q2: By the level of difficulty?
John: Yes. What tends to happen with that, of course, is using the measurement to measure according to what we’re experiencing, so then it measures our difficulty instead of measuring our opportunity. The more you can be what nothing is in the midst of what something is, the more control you have of what something is.
Q3: So the more you can move this reality?
John: Yes. The more that you’ve moved through the density here, the more you’re able to do later.
Q5: What about the opportunity that we have and how about actualizing it more fully?
John: In being in form you’re able to build form. You’re able to do something with form because that’s everything you’re in. That’s your greatest, most visible function. What that reveals is that your real ability and your real opportunity isn’t to build the obvious, and what you can see with that. You’re able to build with something that you can’t see. So everything that you’re able to do in what’s obvious reveals how much you’re actually here to do in what’s not obvious. The correlation is direct, but the correlation isn’t at all obvious. It doesn’t become obvious until there’s awakening to knowing. The more you awaken to knowing, the more obvious that becomes. You can take on projects. You can build things. You can do things. You can put your life and your back and your mind and your will and your emotions; you can put your creativity into actually doing something, accomplishing something, and it doesn’t require, in a sense, being anything of what you know. That’s just doing something with everything of the ability and the capacity you have. That actually reveals how much you’re actually able to be and to do in a way that’s not obvious. It’s what is not obvious that we’re here to do, not the obvious. Everything that you are able to do in what is obvious, when you pass, separates from you. You can’t take it with you. You can’t take with you the results of the use of all of your abilities. But the use of what you are in what is not seen is what you take with you, whether you’ve done something with that or not done something with that. That you take with you. So you do take with you gain and loss, but it’s not on the level of what you experience within all of your ability and your capacity in what is seen.
Q5: Is it then that the opportunity here is over?
John: There will be another opportunity, but not this one.
Q5: So evolution doesn’t stop in that?
John: It doesn’t stop. That doesn’t stop at all, but the opportunity that is here stops.
Q5: And is that in this group, what’s going on here, or generally?
John: Both. The opportunity of being in form and the opportunity of being here. If the experience passes and you haven’t made dense what it is that you knew in the density of that experience, then what has become dense is not what you’ve done but what you haven’t done. If you don’t do something with the opportunity, if you don’t make dense your opportunity, then the density of the experience makes manifest what you knew the truth of. That density stands against you. There’s that much density holding you to what you knew and what you wouldn’t be and do, so that density remains but not as an experience. When you pass, you’ll be realizing that density. The density stays with you. The density of being what you know, and not being what you know, stays with you.
Q2: And is that like a magnet that’s still attracting back to a reality as this, again?
John: No. That’s over.
Q1: Are we able to awaken this density while we’re still in the body or that’s basically done?
John: Yes. It’s about honesty and there are different levels of honesty. There’s the most basic honesty, a very surface honesty, and when you’re in that, then that draws you into a deeper level honesty and a deeper level honesty, and each one points you to the next. Each one doesn’t let you stay in one place.
Q2: So this density that we take with us, will it move and change too, afterwards?
John: Very slowly, extremely slowly. The amount of change that you can bring about to you here is extremely fast. Once you pass, it’s much more than extremely slow. The difference is astounding. What you can accomplish in five minutes of core honesty, you could accomplish then – if you could possibly measure it by time – in an entire year of being purely knowing and seeing. Within the five minutes you can accomplish much. Within the one year you will accomplish very little. So the opportunity here is astonishing.
Q4: So would those who’ve passed be aware of the movement that’s happening here as we continue to evolve?
John: You’ll be fully aware. You won’t be less aware. What you do with your realizations is a density that you take with you when you pass. What you don’t do with that opportunity is also a density that stays with you when you pass. So density stays with you when you pass but not the kind of density that you think. For instance, when you make a project or create something, build something, fix something, when you pass you can’t take that with you. You can’t take your car and your house with you. You can’t take that kind of density with you. The kind of density that you do take with you is a kind that’s not seen in the way that you accomplish things and do things in this world. In that way you can come into this world and then leave, and leave with a deficit. Or you can leave with a great gain. A density of gain or a density of loss. And it’s all and only in relationship to what you did or didn’t do with what you knew.
Q1: So the stakes are higher in being here?
John: The stakes are higher than high in being here. After your passing, you have this great density of what you didn’t do with what you knew. If you could, if it were possible, you would come back and do it again. And you would come back, if it were possible, to a life of the worst imaginable difficulty, torture, loss, pain, aggravation. You would leap into that if you could possibly redo it, because all you would see and all you would know is your evolution in it, not how horribly difficult and terrible it would be. But you won’t have that opportunity. It all comes down to a core honesty in the midst of density, and the density, of course, pulls you away from that core honesty. What you don’t experience is the density of your response or lack of response to knowledge. That density doesn’t register. As soon as you pass, that is the only density that registers. It’s about being what you know in the midst of density.
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