Q: It’s not easy for me to be here, even though I have a deeper knowing to be here. I see the amazing effect that it has on my connection with my wife. I see what you do, direct and indirect, and still for me it’s totally not about you. You’re just sitting in front of the portal. My goal is to walk innocent as a baby, as I am, in the vast, but what's the point for me to be here right now?
John: Because you knew.
Q: I know you many years. What's going on here John? What's the point?
John: Like you said, it’s about what I’m doing directly and indirectly, of which some of the effects you’ve already realized.
Q: You once said that most of what you know and see you will take to the grave. It cracked me to hear that. It was painful. You said it’s not because it’s only irrelevant. It’s also because we’re not ready to hear it, and the pain came from that, feeling untrustworthy by you as an individual and also as a group here, together as one. For me it was like a breach of contract, you telling me I come to you like this (opens palm). It broke my heart.
John: I give everything that reaches. Whatever I give that doesn’t reach, distracts. That’s not a breach; that’s a bridge.
Q: John, I recognize in you that I have never seen such integration between self and being. Is it something that you can share? I know…I don’t know how to say it. I see so much pain in this room, in the eyes.
John: Pain is not enduring. The littlest bit that you know surpasses all, live in. It’s what forms your bond with everything and everyone. Pain refers to your self, while love refers to your heart.
Q: I never hear you speaking about freedom. Does freedom exist?
John: If you’re free of it, yes. All of your self. You being free of your self isn’t it. You, coming from your being in the midst of the self you have, is it. That is a freedom from your self that is of a different kind than how you relate to freedom in your self. You don’t need to be free of your self. That gives undue importance to your self. For you to enter your own being, you love.
Q: So freedom does not exist? Only love exists?
John: At the core, yes.
Q: Can you tell me what love is?
John: Openness of heart without an object, softness of heart without a reason. Put love in pain and it thrives. Put love in a corrupted past and it thrives. Love won’t reference what it is put in. Love is free of everything, enabling it to be in everything.
Q: Is any action needed to perceive love?
John: If openness and softness is an action, yes. Otherwise, no.
Q: So who is the one who is open and soft?
John: You are not a ‘who’.
Q: Again?
John: At your very core, you are meaning, and when that moves, you are love.
Q: When meaning moves, the core is love?
John: When meaning moves, it’s love.
Q: What do you mean by saying ‘meaning'?
John: The reason that you’re able to relate to the meaning of something on any level is because you are meaning. You don’t need to acquire meaning for you to be meaning.
Q: How can the meaning move?
John: As soon as it knows. The beingness of what meaning knows is love.
Q: How does ‘the I' fit into that?
John: Essence of the ‘I’ is meaning aware. Essence of the ‘me’ is meaning moving. The ‘me’ is dependent on the ‘I’. The ‘I’ isn’t dependent on the ‘me’.
Q: This is the integration?
John: Integration is in reference to meaning having a self, and being meaning in all of it. A meaning-filled self that moves by love is the integration of the self. There isn’t anything that can hinder that.
Q: So the integration is natural movement?
John: Yes.
Q: So, if integration is a natural movement, no reason for me to interfere for it to happen. Only stay open and soft?
John: Openness and softness is natural to your heart.
Q: So, this does not need any interference.
John: That's right.
Q: So my tendency to interfere, it comes from fear?
John: It comes from you not being what you really are. It comes from you pursuing meaning instead of being meaning.
Q: So, should I just stop?
John: At the core, stopping is too much.
Q: So, not even stop.
John: At the core, yes. When the scale of doing is at zero concerning being, you’re home. Doing to be has no real existence. When you are not doing to be, you are love. Love is unaccomplished.
