Q1: It’s about getting to know the working of the deeper engine inside, and I can see how it’s able to come up and fill my heart and sometimes it reaches my speech. I wanted to ask, I think it’s four years ago that I first felt this engine in my body here, and it was like moving there and it kept being there also when I went to the washroom and came back and went into the meeting. My question is why is it four years, why does it take four years before I start to realize it when I knew it and saw it four years ahead? Is it a delay that is peculiar to me? Or is it something that has to do with the whole group, the energy of the whole group was needed for that realization?
John: What’s taking place with the whole group gives relevance to something like that. For something like that to be taking place on your own, you wouldn’t really have the context for it.
Q1: So now it is relevant to realize it. We are somehow doing it together. It’s like a movement in all of us?
John: Everyone is starting to get it. So it’s taken that long for the whole group to come into it.
Q1: Why do I see these things beforehand?
John: Because you’re getting close to something. You’ll have a deeper sense of something that you’re close to and that deeper sense translates into your thinking. You’ll have mental images to help you relate to what it is you’re sensing. But it isn’t the images that count, it’s about your deeper sense is within the image.
Q1: And that is about going to the knowing of what I see in these images?
John: Yes.
Q1: When I was knowing something and then I started to think about that or I went on in that, is that original thought or just my mind?
John: That’s your mind. Original thought is when you’re thinking from within something that’s not characteristic for your self, thinking inside something that isn’t your self.
Q1: So the connection in a meeting, is that something that I am really knowing or just interpreting?
John: You need to discern that because there’s going to be a place you’ll be doing either one. Somewhere you’re doing something of interpretation and other places you’ll be really knowing something and it isn’t your interpretation. Find out where each is taking place. You can know it, and is there something of interpretation in it? You can know the truth of something and then inadvertently draw a conclusion based on that, knowing something and then deducing and then you end up with a product that is a mix between knowing and deduction.
Q1: And that is different from original thought. That is what original thought doesn’t do?
John: Yes.
Q1: Will I just have my certainty when that happens?
John: It’s different than a certainty: it’s a worked through, in your own experience, clarity of what is and what isn’t. If you can’t distinguish between the two, then you don’t know which one you’re in. It’s when you start to distinguish between the two that you can tell the difference between the two, to know which one you’re in. Every direction has a pitfall. If you don’t see the pitfall inherent to the particular direction that you’re in, then you won’t know if you’re in that pitfall or not. If you can see the pitfall then you’re able to know if you’re in that pitfall or not. Count on a pitfall in any little direction.
Q1: When I write down, this is something I know and this is something that I’m pondering on, is that kind of seeing the pitfall?
John: When you’re writing down something, you’re knowing. Look for the pitfall in that.
Q1: But looking for that pitfall cannot be done by deduction?
John: That’s right. You can’t deduce a pitfall; you have to know a pitfall. And if you’re not knowing a pitfall, then you don’t know if you’re partly in it already or not. You can look for the pitfall, be really open to it and still not know it. Then, if you’re incapable of discerning it, you will perhaps find the pitfall after you’ve fallen in it, which is fine. The pitfall isn’t a bad thing.
Q1. In my development, next year I’ll have more ability that I don’t have now. So that being said, there is something for me to learn within everything I’m knowing right now.
Q2: So you’re reaching further?
John: The growing has to be there. There have to be cutting-edges that I’m engaging. So the self I develop has to be a self of cutting-edges, not a self of familiarity.
Q2: So you’re constantly changing, evolving.
John: My self is in a state of flux.
Q2: What is flux? Like liquid?
John: Like liquid that, as it cools off, is going to hold a particular form. Before it’s cooled off it’s in a state of flux and could take on any form.
Q2: A certain fire is needed to melt it. Is it a certain fire that ignites the fire?
John: The fire isn’t in all of the self. It’s in the cutting-edges. There are different levels within the self, of being in a state of flux. There are areas where there isn’t a cutting-edge where it’s already settled and formed but it is able to move into flux very, very easily. On the cutting-edges, closer to the cutting edges, is where the flux is more prevalent. Right in the cutting-edge is pure flux. It’s moving forward in knowing without having the proof in your self of what you’re knowing the truth of.
Q3: Is there something to mapping out what you’re seeing as your current cutting edges, your current pitfalls?
John: That’s another cutting edge. It’s a cutting-edge in your intellect, being able to conceptualize what is becoming clear for you.
Q2: What is the difference between a cutting edge and a pitfall?
John: Within any direction that you take there is going to be a pitfall. There are even pitfalls to being on cutting-edges. You cannot move in existence without approaching pitfalls.
Q3: Is it the mistakes we make and how we grow in them?
John: If you fall into it, it would be like a mistake. It’s not so much a mistake as a finer correction. If you’re moving on a certain level of knowledge, everything on that particular level, there’s a correctness in how to move in that level. If you go a little bit of a level up from that, then everything that was correct on this level isn’t going to be correct on a higher level because it’s going to be finer.
Q1: So that’s why you cannot take the old with you as you go finer?
John: Yes. Think of sanding a piece of furniture that you've made. You start off with a coarser sandpaper to smooth out the slivers and bumps and you keep working, moving to a finer and finer paper. You use only the appropriate sandpaper for each texture until at last, it's not sandpaper anymore — it's a buffing cloth.
