Excerpt from a dialogue with John de Ruiter on October 19, 2014
Q: At a recent informal gathering someone was talking to you about the classical enlightenment path in relation to what we’re doing here. The instructions that you give are so different to Advaita, for example, where it’s like negating everything that happens in the phenomenal world and sensing world. Something in me knows what you’re saying without doubt, but it’s so totally unlike what I ever thought.
John: What you’re doing here begins not even with your interests. It can register as an interest, but it’s first not to do with your interests. It has to do with what I’m coming from, and what I’m coming from is not principally to help or teach people. It’s a secondary effect. What I’m really here for is to bring greater reality into reality, and that can’t be brought in without people coming into a new reality. There’s an enormous amount of preparation that needs to take place, which involves helping people and teaching, so that a base can be formed within each and within the group, conducive for greater reality to come here, open here and land here.
Q: How does it happen that some people are drawn to that and others not? I have so many people back home who are interested in spirituality and you just said it’s not about interest. Why are they not drawn to this?
John: They may be, but that can be shut down very quickly. Someone can just know in their heart this is true, which is really different from the calling. What someone knows is true in connection to me, or their being here is for them to follow through with what they know.
A lot of people can know, and knowing is not a powerful thing. When you know something, it’s just there, and if that is not synchronized with the personal interests in your life then you can just say, ‘oh, okay, that looks good but I’m busy’. What you know is left behind because you’re moving forward in something that doesn’t include it. That’s the most common. Some know in a very substantial way, but then the responsibility is also as substantial. Others know in a very subtle way, and just a little bit of movement that doesn’t include that covers it over.
Q: I find it difficult to distinguish the calling amongst everything else that is going on inside.
John: It has nothing to do with your life, your personality, your self or your past. It has nothing to do with your spirituality although it’s connected. It’s something way, way bigger than reality as you’ve known it and it’s bigger than your spirituality.
Q: The entry is really through the heart, right? The word ‘heart’ is so big and I wonder what you exactly mean by that. Sometimes I focus on my physical heart, and sometimes it feels huge. Sometimes it’s a sense of love, sometimes it’s just a memory of an experience I’ve had with you. All of these mean heart. How is it best to connect with that?
John: Your heart is here and then it’s what you know here which leaves you not dependent on what you’re thinking and understanding in your mind. The thinking and understanding belong where they belong, and they’re not first necessary. Thinking and understanding are like clothing on your body. They’re really important, but you don’t need clothing on your body for you to be in your body.
Q: I’ve been trying to free everything to this point now, even the thinking and understanding, into the heart or this point that feels like you. Is that a good way to do it?
John: When you lack understanding or pointed thought in this, then you don’t need it. The moving forward is you being in. You being in your heart, and then you being in what you know in your heart. When you’re in what you know in your heart, you’ll be following through a portal that you recognize in your heart. You move into that, and it takes you further and further to something that is deeper than your own heart. You don’t need an understanding for you to move in that; you just need response. But if you want to have a label for what you’re entering, then you’ll be busy outside of the portal, so to speak, looking in, wondering what it is, but not going in. Just go straight in and stay there until, from behind you somewhere, the label slowly starts to appear, so that you can communicate in this life about what you’re in, but you don’t need that label to be in what you’re in.
What I’m moving here is a reality that people are not familiar with, even in their own spiritual sense of things. When someone moves as a being, there’s an introduction to deeper reality that you can be home and in your heart, and even in what’s deeper than your heart, but it’s still going to be an introduction to something that you didn’t know about before. With all of that being realized, coming into the deeper levels within, greater reality has something to land in, but that’s again different from my moving deeper reality and people coming into what is, to them, another reality. But that’s just deeper reality. After coming into another reality, greater reality can come in.
Q: So you’re saying you have to enter deeper reality in order to have a place for greater reality to land?
John: If greater reality were to land in your self, it would be so shockingly alien to your self that you would freak your own self out. It would be unbearably shocking. When you come into deeper reality, that’s already a real shock to your experience of your self. To realize how perfectly your self is not it, that’s already really something to take in. To live like that is already a fundamental shift. When you’re being what’s deeper in you than your self, in your heart and in your life, in a sense you’re building a landing strip so that greater reality can land on what you’re really living as and living in, and that this is more to you in very real and practical ways. It’s more to you than your self and your life and you’re giving form to that in your form and in your life.
When greater reality lands in that, greater reality is home to you. It is again another reality, but it’s not a shock if greater reality will move in sync with the deeper reality that you’ve turned your own life into. But if deeper reality hasn’t replaced your self, then deeper reality is already going to be a stress point and greater reality would just scare you, too other-than, too powerful, too consuming. Just one touch of it would take everything, and for a self-orientation that’s just terrifying.
Q: How does that relate to building a body of being?
John: When you build a body of being, greater reality has a body to be in. If you’re not building a body of being, then greater reality will not have, in you, a body to be in. it’s not going to come in and manifest in your space separate from your body. It’s going to land in your body, and it can’t land in your body until your deeper levels are being made physical in your body. Then you really are of a deeper level of body, and it’s real to you in your life.
Q: Will greater reality land in your person only if there is a body of being?
John: There needs to be something of that. I can move greater reality into the room without people having built a body of being, but it’s going to be something that’s, in a sense, outside of them and appeals to their deeper levels. So there’s a relationship that people have with it; they know and are drawn to that, but that’s different from greater reality landing in their body.
Q: Will everyone be able to build a body of being?
John: That is principally what’s occurring here.
Q: So, everyone?
John: To a greater or lesser degree, yes.
Q: And that can only happen when the self is already swept out of the heart and the being comes into the self?
John: It can happen with the self still in the heart, but then it’s problematic because there’s going to be a mixture in the response to the deeper levels that are moved. So at some point the pressure is going to be greater and greater on that middle road of having something of your self in your heart. That becomes increasingly intolerable as a physical experience because they don’t go together. The two belong together but with a reversed order. It isn’t your self in your heart, it’s your being-filled heart filling all of your self and being in all of your self. So they do come together but on completely different terms than self-empowerment.
Q: So to bring the being into the heart is through response?
John: Yes. It’s only through response.
Q: What about the way you live in your life?
John: That brings what is in your heart into your self. When you live your life, you live your life by the self you have and through your self. You can’t live your life without the self. Without a self, you don’t have the form to be able to relate to others, to this world, to what’s occurring. You wouldn’t be able to move.
Q: I think I’m never going to get there because I’m still reacting.
John: That’s different. You can be building a body of being in your life and you’re going to have aspects of your self that are not integrated. Everything it touches which is not integrated in your self, it’s going to agitate. That agitation doesn’t mean that you’re not in your heart.