Excerpt from a dialogue with John de Ruiter on April 7,  2015

Q1: As we will be away from the country, I realize I can be immersed in the same depth that I find here, while we’re physically somewhere else. That gives me a deep focus inside and in our marriage.

John: Inside you’ll end up with eyes like burning coals because of everything that you’re doing, everything that you’re looking at. Your way of seeing has to do with your horizon, so your eyes turn into that. It’s how you see.

Q1: I really know that. We are really busy and having that horizon is our focal point. Making love is another side of that and sometimes we’re so busy that the work takes over but it’s not in a way where we’re moving away from being together. But we still need to connect that way, right?

John: Your horizon needs to be connected to your sexuality. So when you’re moving in your horizon, your sexuality is moving and that’s because of your relationship.

Q2: I sometimes sense that women, if its possible to generalize, have a greater depth of delicateness in sexuality. I’m bringing this up because, if that were true, what would be the best way for men and women to reach a deeper level of oneness?

John: That kind of substance connects you to your horizon. There are multiple levels of that substance, and it’s all very connected. This horizon concept, it’s not an idea in your mind; it’s manifest in your deeper bodies. You’re moving by that, so when you’re in what you know in that, your deeper bodies are engaged. So what you’re holding together as a vision, it’s all of your deeper bodies that hold that vision together.

Q2: Can that connect between two people?

John: In a hug you find that. And then to base your relationship on that substance, that’s really something, so your relationship is made of that substance; it’s how you relate together. Grow it. Develop it.

Q2: Can that be moved by intent?

John: If you’re coming from it, you can move it with intent. You can move it by a thought, by feeling. You can move it by any one of your forms. When you’re moving in your sexuality, your horizon is moving. Your horizon needs to be moving in your sexuality.

Q2: You’re not meaning that needs to be made sexual?

John: For her, yes, but not necessarily for you. Sexuality for a man is different than it is for a woman. For a man, sexuality is essentially about code, while for a woman it is in her direct experience.

Q3: Can you say more about that? That doesn’t apply to me.

John: Sexuality moving is different for a woman than it is for a man. In a relationship, the sexuality that moves is not about the man; it’s about the woman. That doesn’t mean that there’s no code to realize, but it is generally much more for the man about code than it is for the woman. For the woman it’s about streaming, but a woman can’t stream without being in code.

Q3: Usually men relate to the experience but they’re meant to relate to the code?

John: But that’s not streaming, that’s ‘man wants sex and woman wants love.’

Q3: So when you said sexuality, you meant deeper sexuality?

John: For your deeper womanness to be embodied, your sexuality would not stop moving; it would be moving all day long.

Q3: And as a woman, then I would feel that all the time? Or I would be able to feel it all the time?

John: Yes.

Q3: So I might not feel it because I might be busy doing something else but if I stopped and tuned in then there it would be?

John: And ideally, in the integration of your self, it would just simply always be there and it wouldn’t be like that for a man. For a man, he would just be walking in code. Both are walking in code but the woman is walking with this streaming. There’s just a flow in her body.

Q1: And for a man, what’s it like then?

John: Walking as code. That’s more like…

Q4: It’s more like walking in knowing, very deep and steady.

John: It’s similar to what Neo came into in The Matrix. When he finally got it, it’s all just code and he’s walking in it. He’s not walking in this flowing, moving stream, but moving as code.

Q3: So in one way, it could be drier, except it’s full of knowledge, right? But for the woman, it actually feels juicier because it’s got flow in it.

Q2: What’s the purpose of the two coming together?

John: It has you needing to be code because you’re always reading her and responding to her and receiving her.

Q3: So how it sounds to me is that the coming together pulls the deeper levels into the deeper bodies.

John: Yes.

Q3: And because we’re so close to each other, it’s like this intense, or it could be subtle, pulling up in both all the time.

John: Yes.

Q4: The experience I have when we make love is that when I relate to what seem to be living concepts that John is teaching, and the less I relate to my body, the more turned on she gets.

John: It’s like Neo in code. He is code and there isn’t anything that flows in you that he doesn’t directly read, receive and respond to, and that really moves your stream because that’s what you’re made for.

Q3: We’re made to be read like that? Is that what you mean?

John: And to move.

Q3: So the woman is made for moving that stream?

John: Yes, so you are in an all-day shower over him. You don’t need to be together; he’s in your all-day shower but he’s in it as code. This is how you work, with eyes that are like coals and this molten flow of womanness that is unstopped, moving through you as your sexuality.

Q2: So it needs to become physical for her and not for me? Isn’t that what you said?

John: The unintegrated man just wants to have sex. The unintegrated man also wants to provide for the woman and be in control of the sexuality. In turning it around, the man becomes more like the woman and the woman is the one who has the control and pours. He turns into code and is reading, receiving and responding. A woman’s sexuality is like the waves of the sea and it’s just moving and moving and it’s endless and the integrated man is able to take all those waves and just settle them. The ocean is just still instead of being these waves that are wanting and needing and moving and looking and searching.

Q5: How can I move in deeper sexuality? Is deeper womanness always moving in the deeper levels? Or is it following knowing all the time and not letting your self have anything and then it just happens? Is it for me to just sort of unclip all these layers and just be there as a deeper woman?

John: As your deeper levels are moving, that’s going to move your sexuality, and when your sexuality moves, when arousal is there, instead of connecting that to your self, make no connections or conclusions. When your sexuality moves, it moves, and it’s all just wonderfully contained within your body. Be in the flow in your body, but draw no conclusions and let nothing out.

Q5: So does it feel like love? What does it feel like?

John: It can feel like love; it can feel like sexual arousal; it can feel like deep things moving that you don’t understand.

Q5: So if it feels like love, still don’t do anything?

John: The love itself can move toward someone but when that love is moving, don’t draw a conclusion like ‘oh, maybe there’s meant to be something here.’ Don’t connect it to your self by drawing a conclusion. Then you can be with a man and the love moves or your sexuality can move, and you’re drawing no conclusions. You’re immersed in your own sexuality as it moves, and you’re in the enjoyment of it. That brings up your deeper womanness and there’s nothing in your self that reaches for another person.

Q5: So that’s how I can connect to my deeper womanness, not just by following my knowing in daily life?

John: Yes. Then your sexuality can start to move while you’re with all kinds of different people and you make no connection. Even if, as soon as you’re around certain men, your sexuality moves, don’t draw a conclusion.

Q5: Sometimes I’m awkward. Is that just a nervousness?

John: That’s a nervousness. Contain your own sexuality so that it’s alive in your body and it’s alive within your self, but you’re not using your self to draw a conclusion and make a connection. Your sexuality moving is not about men. It’s about your heart, your being, your body, your self, and it’s all contained there in this sphere of you in form and you just freely live and move in that.

As soon as you start drawing conclusions, it takes you out of the deeper womanness and into a surface womanness, and then your sexuality connects you to another person through attraction. It makes you all about your self. When you let it be, the sexuality takes on more and more form without being connected to the surface through attraction. It’s not about your self even though it’s free-flowing in all of your self. It’s all contained within this sphere of you that is both form and not form and you live in it.

Q2: I’ve heard you mention before about a higher level sexuality that manifests as a goodness. I’ve really seen that or had the experience of that where something that could be sexual, whether it be contained sexual arousal or whatever it is, when you really keep your hands off it, it sort of almost takes the form of really tender care. Is that the same for a man or a woman? Or is that a thing that a man experiences more?

John: For a man, it’s more to code. It’s walking as code, like Neo. For a woman, it’s more of a thickness of embodied flow. And regardless of how strong that can be, it’s never made to be connective with another person by way of drawing a conclusion.

(To Q5) As soon as you’re standing by a man and you’re aroused, don’t go ‘oh, it must be, it may be, there may be something there.’ Don’t draw those conclusions. Then that movement, that arousal, is free to move, free to fill your body, fill your self, your heart, everything, and it doesn’t make another step. The part that is connective is the goodness that moves and, in your own sexuality, your being moves. Then when there is arousal, and it’s contained within you, your being is moving and your sexuality doesn’t move toward anyone else. But the beingness that moves, the goodness that moves, moves toward everything and everyone.

Q2: So how does the connection get made when there’s that, and then there’s the point of forming a relationship and perhaps a marriage?

John: That is all to code and not to be experienced. Forming a relationship isn’t based on attraction. It’s based on code.

Q2: So it’s a building and building and building?

John: Yes.

Q2: And it doesn’t even need to take form. The more the form is not taken, the more that there’s a building?

John: Yes.

Q5: I’ve had three really big openings in the last two months and I had one at this seminar in the informal with you. I have these and I don’t want to explain it because you can’t really give it words, but it’s just really big, and afterwards I always have such a hard time. I feel like I’m crashing like a plane crashing into buildings. I know I can stay with what I know within that awakening, but it’s so difficult and I’m just wondering if there’s something you can tell me?

John: What were those awakenings?

Q5: After the second one I was on the bus and I remember feeling just really blissed out, like with no identity. I sat down and had this awareness saying to everyone around me, ‘it’s okay, I know we’re all connected.’ It wasn’t my mind. It was something else talking in me. I could hear it and I remember smiling on the bus. It was the happiest I’ve ever been. It was so mundane and it was almost like I jumped into heaven but heaven was on the bus. It was a euphoric, magicalness and it also happened in the informal gathering with you. Everything was black. It was so cool that I was seeing the black and then in the informal gathering I was looking at you as well and you were just changing so much and you don’t change much anymore for me. You turned into a black woman. These awakenings are so profound, but I sometimes experience a crash afterwards.

John: What is the crash?

Q5: I really get into my self afterwards and I feel anxious.

John: Because it makes your self vulnerable for you to be that far out. You’re that far out. If you were in a tree, you wouldn’t just be out on a limb; you would be way out into the leaves.

Q5: And you can’t stay there?

John: Not necessarily in the experience, but you can stay there because when the experience subsides and all those deeper levels quiet down, then you are left way out in the leaves. Way too vulnerable, way too much is going on, and it activates your self, so you get self-conscious and emotional and full of thinking and feeling and doing things in your self, working with your patterns and reacting because you’re that far out in your self. Then you tell your self, ‘we’re going back and not coming out here again,’ or at least that’s a pattern that can develop. You need to be able to stay that vulnerable for you to be able to sustain moving as deeper levels.

Q2: It’s holding your cutting edge in the midst of experience or lack of experience.

John: Yes.

Q5: So stay out in the leaves?

John: Don’t go back to the branches and the trunk. Where ever it is, just stay. How does your awakening happen?

Q5: It usually happens after I let go of something, when I bring my being into form in the midst of my self, when I really surrender and let go.

John: That is not just because you opened. It is the cumulative effect of how you’ve opened and what you’ve been moving through since you’ve been here. You’ve earned it. You can add to that by letting all of that come into your deeper womanness, by letting your sexuality move without having any filters or boundaries, within your containment.

Q5: In my experiences?

John: Any time, all the time. Then you’re inviting your sexuality to be up and present in your body and it’s free to move anywhere in your self, and you’re not going to draw any conclusions. You’re not going to link your sexuality to a person and it’s free flow, filter-free, boundary-free, within this containment of you and your form.

Q5: I don’t know what that feels like. I don’t know what to look for.

John: Just be open with this understanding, and you’re open to anything and everything because it’s all contained within you. As much as you experience your womanness or experience being a woman, you don’t need to do anything as a woman. Don’t spend that on anyone. Don’t spend it on a man. Don’t spend it on any kind of flirtation. Then you’re alive in your womanness and your sexuality and it doesn’t extend outwards. You have no leaks. You’re all woman and your womanness is contained.

As you come into this, you begin to deeply know that you don’t need anyone. You don’t need a man for your womanness to be fulfilled. It all cycles in you. It cycles in your body, in your self. It includes your being, your heart, your self, your body, everything, and you’re not dependent on that having to connect. It’s all just beautifully contained and it circulates stronger and stronger, and the stronger it gets the more rooted it becomes. And it’s all controlled by goodness.

In the truest sense, you become self-sufficient. You will be able to be with someone in a way that you could never have been with someone before, and this is how you prepare for relationship, and you never need one because the tree just keeps growing and growing and this womanness is not going to stop.

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