Dialogue with John de Ruiter from the May 15, 2018 19:15 Edmonton Canada
Q: I was just sharing with a friend that I’m not experiencing anything in the meetings or having anything to say. It’s such a contrast to India, when every meeting was juicy; I saw subtle things and I felt intensely connected, happy and alive. Here, it’s not like that for me.
John: It’s even better.
Q: It’s even better? Yet others here in the chair share things they see. I feel open and relaxed yet there’s no experience of anything. I know it’s neither good nor bad, but the difference is striking and I’m wondering what you’d say about it.
John: It’s a lovely difference.
Q: I find India so juicy. I really love the being that shines through and I don’t see it here. Is there something I’m blind to, or too much involved in, here, that prevents this ease of flow?
John: The greater the depth, the less that there is for one’s self.
Q: But in India there was both great depth and the movement out through the self. You speak a lot about the movement of the being through all the layers, and you speak of the beyond, but I have no awareness of any of it. Am I not looking where I need to, or is there nothing to be seen?
John: What is to be seen are the deepest subtleties within, subtleties that are not offering your self anything but are critical to what is being built.
Overseas, the gardening offers so much appealing colour … juicy … juicy! Here, the gardening offers a kind of depth that comes with weaning. What brings you here isn’t the same as what you get here. What brings you here is represented in the star on the other side of the auditorium doors. The star on this side of the auditorium doors is different in ways already mentioned, but the star on this side of the doors has a quarter-turn in it. Without realizing that quarter-turn it’s confusing being here from what brings you here. There’s a little bit of a turn that’s required – a shift, a slightly different kind of relating. There’s an adjustment to go through. What’s being built here is different from what’s being done elsewhere. For the self that can be disappointing and frustrating. Here, for the self, it costs more and offers less. It’s a quieter knowing, a quieter realization that sees into what’s occurring here.
Q: Would you say more about this quarter-turn, this shift in relating?
John: Here, it’s so much less about the pull and the draw, within, that so registers in the self. Being here requires a higher level of really listening within.
Q: Does it have to do with more and more relaxed awareness?
John: Without any focus on a return or on results: a kind of listening within that has no reference to one’s self, a kind washing-away of a patterned sense of individuality.
Q: I talked to you in India about core beliefs and I’ve since seen more: that I am the doer, and I am the body. How do they disappear? Washing-away sounds gradual but it seems that this can only disappear suddenly. Either I’m identified, or I’m …
John: Okay then! With that you are washed clean of all sense of personal entitlement. All of your beliefs will wash away: the core belief that you’re entitled to the fruits of your doing, that you’re entitled to the fruits of being. The being isn’t juicy. Within the self the being manifests as juicy.
Q: When I look inside as honestly as I can, many layers say yes to this dissolving. There’s no perceived fear, but obviously there are deeper layers not matching this. The longing for this unification is the only thing that makes me cry anymore. It really moves me. How can I support it? You’ve also talked about timing. Is it to do with that?
John: That part that isn’t saying yes is focused on what others have that you don’t have, and what you had that you don’t have. Without that you would be happy.
Q: I can see that I am able not to entertain any of these thoughts. I can do that.
John: That will wash away your beliefs as they come up.
Q: I see the separation, and I know if I don’t entertain those thoughts I’m fine. I understand being warmly okay, as is. Is that enough?
John: Warmly okay with what is so little, while some others seem to have so much.
Q: I have you, and that’s not at all little. I can never lose you inside of me even if nothing else ever happens. I can live with only that. Whether it shines or not, anything that was ever good and beautiful in me was only because of you. I know a lot of love in me and I felt drafts of it move in India. I’d like to feel love more, but if my heart is open and love is not moving, I know that’s okay.
John: That a tree fully doesn’t need its own fruit.
Q: It’s good to hear. Within the metaphor of the tree and its fruit, what are you? I enjoy your fruit at every meeting. You’re my life and I need you.
John: Eat of the fruit that comes to you, but also plant the seeds that come with this fruit in your ground.
Q: I haven’t had a pull to come to this chair for many years, and in India I responded to tiny pulls. I’ll be aware and respond to the next one.
John: You don’t need one.
Q: I don’t? Is part of the quarter-turn that I need to be aware of something different to come to the chair?
John: Whatever you most deeply, quietly think.
Q: Thinking has been in the forefront for me for a long time and it’s changing. I’m aware of deeper thinking and mind-stuff. Is it this cleaning-up and clarity we’ve talked about going to come from deeper thinking and not relating to comparison, lack and the like?
John: And of that, the odd little bud and blossom will show. You don’t need them but they’ll speak to others of what’s possible.