Dialogue with John de Ruiter from the July 4, 2018 Aft  Jewel Cafe talk


Q1: I’m experiencing a sense of decrease and death, of fragmentation and transition in my self. With this came a dream in which my mother called me. I felt open and warm towards her, yet throughout the call she seemed cold and disconnected. I understand this must be a part of me, yet I don’t know how to read it. When you first spoke of Her I sensed a Kali-like energy, with a cold, destructive aspect to its power. Is this all somehow related?

John: Not in the way that you think. For that higher energy of the calling to land, it’s not going to land in you without it landing in your humanness. For it to land in your humanness it’s not going to land in the way that you experience it in your self. It will open your humanness in a way that you’re not expecting.

If you exaggerate it, the dream highlights the coolness or coldness of what you experienced of this mother, your mother, and that that’s there in your self. All of that is really fine, but for your humanness to hugely deepen and broaden in your self, this aspect of your self, which is like a very slight imbalance, means a lot.

Q1: What is the slight imbalance?

John: It’s a slight imbalance in your self. Everyone has imbalances in themselves and yours goes towards too cool. Too warm is different from the warmth of beingness. It can be a personality compensation where people will be lovey and touchy and feely and sort of juicy, but it’s not actually a full humanness. It’s put on.

Q1: That would be too warm?

John: That would be too warm, and this is too cool. Too warm is more of a put-on. Too cool is just like a slight imbalance. Too cool is not a put-on; too warm is a put-on.

It’s difficult for you to see because you’re in it. One way to see it is when you’re ready to move forward in something that’s a lot higher, that requires the deep filling out of your humanness. Then the imbalance would fill out because of what you’re ready to step into. Being able to step into what’s new is conditional on your much deeper humanness filling out into your self, which is going to go right into that slight coolness. So to highlight the coolness, your subconscious self is going to present to you what is now up for you. The way to see it is by exaggerating it, putting it in a picture of a mother because a mother would have that juicy, warm, flowy, humanness connection. For that to be strongly in how your mother addresses you is like a magnification of what is in you.

Q1: I wish I understood what you’re saying. What is most important for me to hear in what you’re saying to me?

John: The mother in your dream is you, and it reveals an imbalance in you. It’s exaggerated in the dream so that it hits you, and as it hits you then you can find the code of that in your self which is like that. It doesn’t need to be that strong; it can be quite slight.

Q1: I think coolness might show up in me as a being a bit withdrawn.

John: More a tendency to move straight into something like a knife, or a sharpness.

It’s a masculine energy of stepping right into something, so you don’t lack that. If anything you relate to that as like a strength. It’s somewhat of a strength in you.

Q1: But it’s actually not a strength?

John: It is, because it is something that needs to fill out in the self, but there’s a tendency when you start to come into that – because it’s real and it’s good – that you’ll step into it because of how well it works. It is real. It’s like when you know something, then you’re just in, but there’s not a juiciness to that.

Q1: And how would that juiciness come in more?

John: That’s difficult because it isn’t about you being warmer; it’s you opening and softening in a way that would manifest as a vulnerability in yourself. If it doesn’t touch into a vulnerability then it pretends to touch into a modification of how you behave as a self, or how you hold your self or move your self. It’s difficult to find. It’s not a strong thing. It needs to be very subtle, and subtly filling out in a way that brings out vulnerability in your self.

When it brings out the vulnerability, that indicates that it’s not a performance or a modification in your self. It really is from the inside out, and then your self is vulnerable because you’re not using it to bring this about, so it loses its sense of comfort, its sense of control. It would be more like a fragrance of sweet, delicate love wafting through your self, and everywhere it touches you just open. You open without control, so you’re letting the fragrance of that sweet love determine something in your self that you’re not in control of in your self.

Q1: And let that move through my self without doing anything with it?

John: That fragrance opened up into your self would put Kali to sleep without her realizing what’s going on. It would be a mistake for you to think of your self as being cold – that’s too strong.

Q1: Where does that imbalance come from?

John: Everyone has it; it’s different for each.

Q1: I see that. I’m touched by people I see move differently toward you – more personally, more out of control. It’s something I haven’t filled out.

John: When you see someone who has that, just be in love with them. You’re in love with them because of that, and that starts to seep into your self. Tip into it in a way that would make your self vulnerable. Tip into it in a way that you lose some sense of control in your self and the energy of what you’re in love with takes over in a way that you’re not used to, and you’re left tippy and vulnerable.

Q1: I love that. When I’m there I love it so much.

John: All it takes is a light inclination of opening in that direction and you just let your self breathe in that direction. Then it’s only a matter of time. You’ll see the subtlety of that, everywhere it is, more and more. You’ll see the littlest touch of it, whereas before you wouldn’t see those small touches; you would see a stronger version of it that you would like.

Q1: Would you say once more what it is that I love that I’m seeing?

John: It’s not just a really sweet love; it’s a lot lighter than that. It’s more like the fragrance of sweet love … sweet, delicate love.

Q1: And then can that move together with the directness and more masculine one-pointed forward movement?

John: It cleans up the straightness. The other is not filling out in your self, so when you move in the straightness there’s something of your self that is also going to be a part of that straightness. So it’s this other, most subtle filling out of love, that when you do move in straightness there won’t be a mix of your self.  It’s a really delicate, beautiful balancing.

Without that filling out, coming into your self from the inside out, it would be difficult for you to move further because to move further you need that kind of fragrant delicateness; it’s a deeper level of humanness. What you would come into of what is next is going to land in that kind of humanness. If that landing-place is not there, the next is there but remains in waiting.

You know how a newborn has that physical searching for the mother’s nipple? It’s not an understanding, there’s not an experience. It’s tuning into a very first level of humanness that is so faint, so delicate, and that’s what finds her breast and her nipple, and the baby feels that in its face and in its mouth. If you don’t connect that searching to the obvious and drop down into another level, you realize the movement of that very first touch of humanness. What is that movement? Then follow that kind of faintness through in your life.

In that kind of movement the baby is coming into first humanness. Humanness is what nurtures in that self, so that first touch of coming into humanness also brings the baby into some of the first touches of self. There’s a togetherness of humanness and the self, so it’s real.

Q1: It’s so delicate and visceral, like a flower opening inside. I can feel what it would do to me.

John: Find that level of connectivity between faint humanness and the faintness of your self and how the two come together. Come into that in your interaction with others, so you’re attuned to something that subtle, and you’re finding your way into others and with others by that substance of what that newborn is responding in.

A newborn first meeting the mother’s breast is this blind alien first meeting humanness. Newborns are like little aliens. All they are is a being; they can’t relate on the level of self and person and personality and all of that. Where the baby fills out in its first self is when it’s on its mother’s breast, and then it pulls off the nipple, looks up at the mother and just smiles like sunshine for a few seconds and then goes right back again. All of that will then start to open up in you – that kind of inner human sunlight.

As this opens up, it’s like you’re going back into your very first developmental stage and you’re connecting into your humanness, so through the humanness in your mouth and your face you’re finding your connectivity with everyone; you’re finding your nipple.

Q1: I think of my self as someone who easily connects intimately. I love finding the other, but there must be something I’m missing.

John: The edge of it really is without the use of your self. The way the newborn moves in that kind of flow, they aren’t using their self. They’re not starting out with a concept and an idea and replicating that in their self, filling that out. You’re starting out with a pure movement of humanness. That’s your starting point, and then you let that open and flow and that gets to come into your self without your guidance, without you overseeing it, without you being in control of the results of it.

Q1: You’re giving me the key, a starting point for everything. I feel as if I’m filling up with a thick, baby-like substance. It’s as if I’m inside an egg.

John: When you’re in that and someone speaks to you in a way that’s not like that, when someone is sharp or harsh it won’t cause any pain in you; it won’t hurt. What it will do is it will stun you. So it puts you into shock and it leaves you stunned and you have no idea, no frame of reference in your self anywhere for what happened.

Q1: I think when that happened in my childhood I withdrew a little bit or started doing something different.

John: If you don’t withdraw then as soon as the shock subsides that humanness that you’re in moves forward. If you withdraw, then when the shock subsides what you are in the withdraw moves forward to that person instead of the humanness. So you get to start all over in humanness, right from the almost nothing point.

Q1: I also see how I get to feel everything and don’t use the deep to rescue me.

John: It’s not something you retreat to.

When I was young and I would get slapped across the face – it didn’t happen many times, so there weren’t abusive situations, but I very much remember them –  I would just be completely stunned and in shock, and it was a marked expansion that took place inside. It’s as if the deep was shocked and then the deep would start expanding. The shock opens up a bigger space and then the deep would just fill out that space. In my self, I would experience it as fascinating, I was in the expression of the walking away, feeling this heat on the side of my face and I was moving into all of that. Everything was opening and I really liked it.

Q1: What is it about shock that makes the deep open up?

John: When the deep is shocked or stunned, there’s going to be a space of the deep that awareness comes into that’s introduced by an outside stimulus. It’s outside of the scope of understanding of the deep.

Q2: So it can either shrink or expand into that? That’s how you can respond to trauma and open to it?

John: Yes, there is no trauma. There’s no trauma where there is no closing. Wherever awareness closes, the trauma fixates. Openness can not be traumatized; openness in a body can not be traumatized.

Q2: So what is it that makes even a young child close in the face of acute trauma?

John: As soon as there is a micro-choice to relate to the self instead of relating to the depth and the humanness that’s there, then there’s a body closing.

Q2: My mother couldn’t breast-feed me and there must have been some level of closing because I clearly didn’t expand. How can I go back to that openness?

John: By relating through your humanness instead of relating through your self to address something that didn’t come into balance or didn’t develop.

Q2: Can you say what relating from my humanness is for me

John: Dearness.

Q2: Dearness relating to a perceived lack? This imbalance you’re talking about is so evocative; I really want to respond to it!


John: I’ll give you a little secret.  Let the way deep interior of your face and your cheeks and your mouth … let the touches, the very first touches of humanness deep in the interior of your lips and your face meet with the deep interior of a mother’s breast and nipple. You’re going to the essence within each and you’re letting that come together in that relationship. Let what comes together in that be what speaks words to people. Find that in your speaking. Find what you missed with your mother’s breast. Find that deep within the interior of your lips and your face in how you speak to people. It’s all there, so find it in the movement of words and make your words like mother’s milk.



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