JdR Podcast 402

Divorce: How Can I Know It's For the Best?

Divorce: can being with a different partner fulfil all it seems to promise? Is there any truth to what feels like a soul connection? A dialogue full of big questions, deeply and delicately answered.

"It isn’t about your marriage or about divorce or about a different relationship. It’s all about your actual relationship with what you deeply, quietly know the truth of."

—John de Ruiter

Podcast Transcript

With John de Ruiter from the November 2, 2019, Poleg Beach, Israel Event

Q: Hi John, I feel so much is happening since I’ve been here, a lot of movement in me and change. I feel I’m questioning everything, But I’m still here because something about this realness is very attractive to me. It’s also frightening. One of the things I knew coming here was that I’m getting a divorce. Between me and my husband this is final although we haven’t announced it to the children, yet. Because I’m questioning everything I’m suddenly questioning that, even though I think it’s something I want and have wanted for a long time. I would like your help to get clarity on this, please.

John: Just wait. What’s coming up in you may change everything else that you’re in.

Q: So you suggest take time when I get back home to see how I feel?

John: Just open and see. Open without what you’ve had before. Just open and see. It’s easy to break something. It’s difficult to build. Just wait a little.

Q: One of the triggers that helped me reach this decision was another man that I was friends with for many years, and it recently turned into a deeper love, more romantic, and what I felt with him was a different level of intimacy and delicate love which I’ve never felt with my husband and I felt I want more of that, and I don’t think that I can find that with my husband.

John: Give a little bit of space for some of what you’re coming into to have that space, and then see.

Q: How can I know if me wanting to leave my husband is the truth and is best for my development and not just a self level?

John: Quietly, honestly. If you have any narratives in it you’re fooling yourself. Any narratives that keep coming up in your inner dialogue, you’re fooling yourself.

Q: What would it look like without narratives? I can’t imagine.

John: Open into that and see. Narratives are only blinding. Narratives are produced by core beliefs. It’s a mechanism, a subconscious mechanism that produces the narrative. As you go into a different relationship your core beliefs go with you. You’ll keep moving in narratives.

Q: Then how come my encounters with these two different men were so different?

John: In one you’re established in familiarity, which is the ground for narratives. The other isn’t established in familiarity yet, so for now it seems to you like the narratives won’t come in. It’s all new, it’s all different, but are you all new and all different? That’s what does it.

Q: Maybe I am at a different place because I was able to meet this man in a new place in a different way.

John: Yes, but that doesn’t mean that it has very much of you, because if it did, in all of your life you would think and feel and see differently.

Q: When I think of staying with my husband and keeping the family together, I don’t feel happy. I feel it’s a compromise.

John: That you don’t feel happy means that in this other relationship, a little later you’ll also not feel happy.

Q: Are you saying there’s no importance to the connection between people?

John: The meaning and the value of those connections are dependent on your direct relationship with what you deeply, quietly know the truth of. Any little bit of distance you have away from that, you will be fooling yourself.

Q: I don’t understand how you can have different relationships on different levels with different people.

John: You are basically the same.

Q: But then why are the encounters different?

John: Because you’re opening a little bit. But as soon as familiarity sets in, what has characterized you is going to take over.

Q: I don’t feel it’s what’s characterized me that has caused this marriage to not work; I feel that us together doesn’t work. I feel we’ve never shared honesty and intimacy.

John: Have you deeply exhausted your resources?

Q: I feel I don’t have the will anymore.

John: I’m not trying to talk you out of it. I’m not trying to talk you into something.

Q: From the level of soul development, or development of being, is there any importance if I stay married or if I divorce?

John: There, it isn’t about your marriage or about divorce or about a different relationship. There it’s all about your actual relationship with what you deeply, quietly know the truth of. How close in are you with what you know? Or how much do you use of your self to accomplish distance, a safe distance from some or much of what you know? It’s all about what you know: your relationship to direct knowledge. It isn’t about your relationship to your self, what you like and what you don’t like, what seems good for you and what doesn’t seem good for you. Your soul has only to do with your relationship with what you directly know in the midst of everything.

In this world that’s hard to see. This world isn’t about that, and most people are not about that. Your environment encourages otherwise.

Q: Here comes confusion again. I feel I’m not sure I know what I know.

John: Only a core-splitting honesty, way deep within, far out of sight of your self and your life, gets there, can get right into direct knowledge within: what you know.

Q: There is some truth that I know that I know, and I see it. Is that what I need to focus on?

John: If it’s what you deeply, quietly, honestly, directly know, yes. A deathbed kind of honesty. A last hour of life kind of honesty.

Q: Is there truth to soul connections, that meeting someone that has a soul connection with you, it can trigger you, your development, and even trigger your body.

John: Yes.

Q: I feel that’s what happened to me.

John: There are levels of soul. A soul connection doesn’t mean a core truth connection. There are different rates of evolution as a soul. It’s all determined by your relationship to what you know. In whichever level of soul that you’re moving, that’s determined by your relationship to what you know. If it’s in an upward movement it’s going to have being and meaning. But just because it has whatever amount of being and meaning doesn’t mean that that is most deeply it for you. If your relationship with what you know shifts even deeper, the level of soul by which you move will also be deeper, and in that level all of your relationships shift.

Q: So a relationship can shift?

John: What you are in a relationship can really shift, and that may or may not shift the relationship. But either way it shifts the level of soul that you move in.

Each level of soul has with it a different destiny. A fundamental shift, within, shifts the level of soul within, and it shifts your destiny. Most great changes in a life do not change one’s destiny. If it isn’t a fundamental shift within, it doesn’t really matter the change in your life. What you are in your life will basically be the same. You can come into something new in your self, but it’s only then a matter of time where your subconsciousness, it just waits, and as soon as familiarity sets in your subconscious mechanisms are going to bring your self back into what’s old. The new, on its own, won’t hold.

Q: Many people divorce and remarry, and in second marriages that are better, maybe because they’ve grown and they’ve changed. I think it is possible.

John: As soon as you ask is something possible, well yes!

Q: You don’t always bring the same issues to a new relationship.

John: You always bring your relationship to what you know into every relationship. If that hasn’t shifted, then you are still the same.

Q: When you say fundamental change and change of destiny, what do you mean in both of them?

John: When your relationship to what you know significantly changes. A fundamental shift is when you ground instead of into your experience and into your self, you ground directly into what you know. That changes your destiny: a shift in what you ground into. What level do you ground into?

For instance you can ground into your personality, or you can ground more deeply into your self – your self is deeper than your personality – or you can ground into your heart, or you can ground into your deepest heart, or you can ground into what is deeper within than your heart. Any of those differences are different destinies.

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